From: "Bill McGhee" <Bill.McGhee@Tulsa.cistech.com> Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa,rec.scouting.issues Subject: RFD: Phillmont rules Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:56:58 -0500 Organization: CIS Technologies
My post has been granted a trek for 98. In reviewing the new age requirements I see that the young men must be 14 by Jan 1st of 98. I have a scout who will miss this deadline by 6 weeks. He will be an Eagle Scout by that time and already has backpacking merit badge. Additionally, my post is only open to Eagle scouts and if he were to go would be accompanied by 9 other exceptional scouts and two accomplished backpacking leaders. My question is this: If by the rules a young man can become an Eagle Scout before his 14th birthday (much before in some cases) why should be be denied the premier event in a scouts life because of a technicality? Especially if the boy already has backpacking merit badge and has the support of his advisers. I know for a fact that Sommers Canoe Base regularly takes boy much too young to take on such an adventure. At Sommers crews show up at times w/ boys as young as 12 and they let them on the water. I was told it is because they can't support stray boys who have to stay in camp while the rest of the eligible crew takes the trip. My interpreter also told us that is Sommers didn't take the ineligible boy that crew would just go to another outfitter in Ely. If anyone knows how a waiver can be obtained to let this young man go to Phillmont, please let me know. This may be his only change to go to Phillmont ever! -- Bill.McGhee@Tulsa.cistech.com
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (WA Howland) Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa Subject: Re: RFD: Phillmont rules Date: 20 Aug 1997 17:36:46 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Why would this be this kid's only chance to "ever" go to Philmont? I'm sure you'll get questions about how with advancement rules as they are how a thirteen yr old could have enough time in leadership and rank to qualify, but that left aside for the nonce, he has lots of yrs of scouting ahead of him and if he's such a hotshot he'll find a way to earn the trip. YiS Auntie Beans
From: "Harold" <email@example.com> Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa,rec.scouting.issues Subject: Re: RFD: Phillmont rules Date: 20 Aug 1997 19:16:16 GMT Organization: Home... San Francisco, CA
Bill, I think you should re-read... you are going by the OLD age Requirements.. the new ones say that for a summer 1998 trek a Scout must be 14 years old by 1/1/98 OR have completed the 8th grade prior to particpation...... -- http://www.crl.com/~stanleyb/ .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . We live together, we act on, and react to, one another; but always and in all circumstances we are by ourselves. The martyrs go hand in hand into the arena; they are crucified alone. A.H.
From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Eric Nelson) Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usa,rec.scouting.issues Subject: Re: Phillmont rules Date: 21 Aug 1997 15:30:29 GMT Organization: Altair Engineering, Inc.
I won't disagree with this, it's absolutely correct. However, when I was a ranger at Philmont, one thing that was ocassionally a problem was if a crew showed up that was all 13 year olds. I worked with a few like that and the problem was there were no older/bigger kids to help take up a little of the extra weight that the younger guys couldn't carry. This made for less enjoyable hikes. In my opinion, the best crews had: 1)advisors who understood that part of Philmont is letting the boys lead the crew 2)a mix of ages of kids Unfortunately for the original poster, I don't think you'll have much luck bending the age rules b/c there are a TON of people out there who don't quite meet the requirement. Also, have a great time! I want to go back to Philmont......
From: Mark Wright email@example.com (Justin Harrell) Organization Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas Date Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:49:53 GMT Newsgroups rec.scouting.usa,rec.scouting.issues
Philmont has to set some sort of guidelines for it's participants. It's not a matter of the boy's _ability_, but that most 13 year olds aren't ready for the rigors of Philmont. I understand that your scout may be ready for Philmont, but it's the sort of thing: "If we make an exception for one, we must make an excpetion for all." Most 13 year old scouts still have much physical/mental growing before they can challenge Philmont. It's almost along the same argument for finishing your requirements for Eagle before 18. There has to be some limit. What about the Life Scout who gets his rank 3 months before his 18th birthday. He is unable to fulfill the participation/leadership requirement for Eagle. Thus he is denied. The same thing (although not so extreme) applies here. >This may be his only change to go to Phillmont ever! I highly doubt that this will be his only chance to go to Philmont as a youth. I was able to attend twice before I turned 18 (1992, 1995). Just make sure your unit places its reservation early so that this scout may get the opportunity to go in the future. If he's only 14, he'll have a few more opportunities to go before his 18th birthday. Justin Harrell Eagle Scout '96 firstname.lastname@example.org
From krtodd <email@example.com> Organization gte.net Date 3 Sep 1997 05:49:28 GMT Newsgroups rec.scouting.usa,rec.scouting.issues Message-ID <firstname.lastname@example.org> References 1
Bill, The question you posed about an Eagle Scout in your Explorer Post confused me. It was my understanding that to join a Post the child must be 14 years old. As a result I trouble understanding how the boy would even be in your Post to start with. As for this being his last chance to go to Philmont, I find that difficult to agree with. Although this may be the only time that you plan on leading a contingent to the Ranch, the boy should be able to hook up with another contingent, either from your council or another. I went out to New Mexico twice, both with council organized contingents. I had a great time and hope to take at least one of my boys out there when they get older. I must admit that I do not know why they have changed the cutoff date January 1. I would try to write a letter to the National Office and let them give the reasons behind their decision. When you read the response try to be as unemotional as possible to try to understand their point of view. Have a GREAT Trek. Your in Scouting, Ken Todd, Cubmaster Pack 295 Lake Ridge, VA