Philmont: Keith's 16lb pack

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 15:16:48 -0700
From: "Keith T. Hooks" <>
Subject: [Philmont] Pack weight

OK, by more or less popular demand, here is my pack & what's in it, with the weight of everything in ounces. It now weights 16 lbs., 8.2 oz., before water & crew gear. A couple of comments:

  1. Like many of you, what's in my pack may vary from trip to trip. This is accurate as of April 1, 2001, and is what I intend to take to Philmont this summer (unless I change my mind or buy a new toy).
  2. Weights are from my postal scale & are accurate to .1 ounce.
  3. The weights include the stuff sacks the items are packed in.
  4. The sleeping bag is a 700 fill down bag with a Dryloft liner rated to 15 degrees. The weight includes the compression bag I use with it.
  5. I don't carry a long sleeve shirt to Philmont. I wouldn't carry long pants, either, unless I were spar climbing or riding horses.
  6. I'm always eager to learn, and am open to comments or questions.

ITEM                    DESCRIPTION                             WEIGHT (OZ.)
Pack                    Gregory Reality-X                       78.0
Sleeping bag            North Face Sunspot                      43.0
Bag liner               silk mummy liner                         4.9
Sleeping pad            Thermarest 3/4 Ultralight               17.1
Pack cover              Gregory Reality                          7.1
Rain jacket             Marmot Precip                           11.6
Rain pants              Marmot Precip                            7.4
Jacket                  Moonstone Cirrus                        13.0
Fleece set              OR Windstopper hat,
                        fleece gloves, socks, &
                        pocket pillow                            9.3
Sleep set               lined shorts, Coolmax
                        shirt, hiking socks, liner
                        socks (this is duplication
                        of the clothes worn on the
                        trail)                                  18.7
Smellables set          Bullfrog sun screen stick,
                        toothbrush, Ben's 100
                        DEET insect repellant,
                        bandaids, moleskin,
                        Tylenol, small roll
                        duct tape                                3.4
Water bladder           Gregory                                  7.1
Mess kit                2 titanium Sierra cups,
                        1 plastic spoon                          4.6
Utility set             parachute cord, space
                        blanket, Platy patch,
                        diaper pins, pole repair
                        sleeve, pen & paper,
                        trash sack, 2 bandanas
                        fire starter, lighter,
                        needle & thread, whistle,
                        compass w/ mirror,
                        scripture book, light-
                        weight frisbee                          13.1
Towel   med             Packtowl                                 4.1
AP paper                1/2 roll unscented toliet
                        paper                                    1.3
Misc. bag               Petzl Tikka LED head-
                        lamp, Infinity LED flash-
                        light, Schrade SP1
                        lockback knife                           4.6
Long pants              lightweight synthetic                   12.1

TOTAL                                                          260.4
(16 lbs., 4.4 ounces)

ASM, Troop 252
Kilgore, TX
Philmont Advisor
811-F2 (1997)
810-D2 (1999)
812-F2 (2001)

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 06:15:32 -0700
From: Jim <>
Subject: Re: [Philmont] Packing List


Just some thoughts to consider which might lighten your load a bit. Remember, you haven't even considered crew gear yet, which is also fertile ground for serious weight reductions.

>ITEM                    DESCRIPTION                             WEIGHT (OZ.)
>Pack                    Gregory Reality-X                       78.0

You and I must think a lot alike, I absolutely LOVE this pack and have used it for over 5 years now. However, there are lighter-weight alternatives such as the Kelty Flite (at just over 4 lbs without field stripping it), and a few from Mountainsmith. You should be able to knock off AT LEAST 16-24 oz. in this item alone. Time to consider a new toy??

> Sleeping bag    North Face Sunspot              43.0
Do you really need a 15 bag? I would suggest a 25 or even 30 down bag with the silk mummy liner (you already plan on taking), the liner keeps it clean and adds up to 10 to your bag's rating at only 4.7 oz. You also have a set of fleece for additional warmth. If you have a good down bag (700 or better), you should NOT need a compression sac either as good down compresses quite nicely on its own. It should stuff nicely into a watertight, silnylon stuff sac that weighs less than 1 oz.! See "a href="" <> You could also take a few Grabber-Mycoal "Mini-Heater" hand warmers which weigh next to nothing (about .5 oz. each). They will provide 7-8 hrs of localized constant 130 heat which should be enough to warm any bag another 10 or so. That should save you close to 12-14 oz.!!
> Pack cover              Gregory Reality                 7.1
If you use waterproof stuff sacs and zip-lok bags for your sleeping bag and clothes you shouldn't need this. Even a heavy duty plastic bag liner properly tied off should only weigh about 2 oz.. Consider doing without this item and save another 5-7 oz.!
> Water bladder           Gregory                      7.1
This too is heavy, relatively speaking. The Platy "Zip Reservoirs" only weigh 2 oz. for the 3 lt. size. Even the 3 lt. MSR "Dromlites" are only 3.6 oz., and they come with a protective outer layer. There's another 3-5 oz.!
> Misc. bag               Petzl Tikka LED head-
>                         lamp, Infinity LED flash-
Although I think the Tikka is neat and intriguing, not to mention lightweight, I personally think the Infinity is next to worthless. I'd take my little Micro-Photon II, at a measly .5 oz. including the Velcro patch to stick it under the bill of my cap, any day, Backups are easy to just clip on a zipper pull where its always available. It even has an on/off switch. Another 2+ oz. (with a spare battery) saved!
> TOTAL                                                           260.4
> (16 lbs., 4.4 ounces)

TOTAL (potential) SAVINGS:                     38 - 52 oz.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that's 2.5-3+ lbs. which adds up to some serious weight. But wait, there's more. All that HEAVY crew gear they are going to load you up with, lets see what we can do there. Let's look at three items: the tarp, the tent, and the stove. Combined, these should weigh close to 184-200 oz. (11.5-12.5 lbs.)

Philmont tarps are great but heavvvvvy, built for lots of use and abuse. Consider taking your own lightweight silnylon fly. It will take more care to set it up and use without ripping it, but that's what shakedown training is all about. And at just 18 oz. for a 10x10 that's a considerable savings over the 54+ oz. heavy duty tarp with steel stakes. Take some titanium stakes and save even more - up to 36-40 oz.!

The Eureka "Timberline Outfitter" tents Philmont uses have a pack weight of about 135 oz. each (2 man). That's 8 lbs 7 oz.! Again, a very good tent, but built to take abuse. Consider the "Timberlite XT-2" 2-man at only 80 oz. (5 lbs), a savings of 55 oz. each!! And they make a great Troop backpacking tent. There is also the Sierra Designs "Clip Flashlight CD" at only 69 oz. (4 lbs. 5 oz.).

But the best weight saver is the stove. The Peak "Apex II" weighs 19 oz. and the "Feather" weighs 22 oz. empty (without the stuff sacs), and most crews carry 2. Plus the spun aluminum fuel bottles weigh in at 5+ oz. empty, again 2 or more. That's a total of 48-54 oz. of stoves. Consider this, homemade alcohol stoves that weigh about 1+ oz. each plus Nalgene 16 oz. plastic fuel bottles at about 2 oz. each. Even if you double the number of stoves and bottles to 4 each (one per buddy pair), that's still a savings of 36-42 oz.!! They are fool proof with no moving parts, just fill and light. And the homemade stoves cost almost nothing to make and make a great crew project. Check them out at:


Hope all this stuff helps, happy trails.


James Ball
Central Florida Council (Orlando)
Troop 225 ASM; Tipisa Lodge 326;
ADC and District Training Chair;
"usta be a Beaver (SR189)....
      ....and a good 'ol staffer too! (SR295, SR372,SR4323)"

See also:

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