Note: these articles have been edited to remove text quoted among them.
From: "SWA" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 1998/07/13 Message-ID: <email@example.com> Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usaI'm attending the Philmont Training Center next week. I've read in some of the information sent me that attendee's at the center are allowed to go out on day hikes on some of the trails during down time. They even mention the Urraca Trail as a good one. Does anyone know if the Tooth of Time is on the list? I went to Philmont as a scout in 1980 and that was really the only thing my crew did not get a chance to do. Let's just say it's unfinished business to me.
I was also wondering if the Kit Carson Motel in Cimarron is any good. I have a reservation for the night before check - in at a good price but was wondering what condition it's in.
The Urraca Trail is a PTC only trail. Philmont does not allow PTC attendees in most backcountry areas including the Tooth of Time. There are a total of 24 miles of trails open to PTC participants. All are easy hikes. They are:
From firstname.lastname@example.org (Stephen M. Henning) Organization Boy Scouts of America Date Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:23:04 -0400 Newsgroups rec.scouting.usa Message-ID <email@example.com>
1) Lover's Leap (2 miles roundtrip) Hike on a road to a sheer rock formation.
2) Cathedral Rock (6 miles roundtrip) A beautiful overlook, take your camera.
3) Urraca Trail (4 miles roundtrip) Hike the PTC nature trail and earn a patch.
4) Abreu (2 miles roundtrip) Spanish 1870's camp serves root beer in a cantina.
5) Ponil Camp (3 miles roundtrip) A major horse camp and the original Philmont headquarters
6) Indian Writings (7 miles roundtrip) An archaeological site of a prehistoric indian camp. This trail is poorly marked but a nearby road goes the same place.
The rules are you must hike in a party of 3 to 12 members. You must sign out on the PTC bulletin board and sign back it when done. No night hikes.
I recommend getting the Philmont topog map and taking a compass, water and pancho. Also a camera and binoculars would be useful.
> I was also wondering if the Kit Carson Motel in Cimarron is any good. I have
> a reservation for the night before check - in at a good price but was
> wondering what condition it's in.
The Kit Carson Motel is a good buy and a decent motel. I also usually eat at the adjacent restaurant. I recommend it unless you want to stay in the historic part of the St. James Hotel. The St. James has a historic hotel and a modern motel. You need reservations to eat at the St. James. Probably Taos (near Taos Pueblo) from the west, Pueblo (near Royal Gorge) from the north, and La Junta (home of the Koshare Indian Dancers) from the east are the nearest sites with a decent choice of accomodations and tourist facilities.
Cheers, Steve Henning, Reading, Pennsylvania, USA
Correct email address is firstname.lastname@example.org (Please forgive my spam deterrent)
Visit my home page at http://www.users.fast.net/~shenning
From email@example.com (Alan Houser) Organization "emf.net" Quality Internet Access. (510) 704-3800 (login: guest) Date 14 Jul 1998 00:42:00 GMT Newsgroups rec.scouting.usa Message-ID <firstname.lastname@example.org>The Tooth of Time is specifically excluded from the hikes you can do while at the PTC. I enjoyed the Urraca Trail in 1992 (nice patch). You & I will have to do another trek to climb the Tooth.
I also stayed at the Kit Carson the night before my 1992 PTC session started. Nothing fancy, but clean and convenient.
Alan R. Houser ** email@example.com ** Scoutmaster, Troop 24, Berkeley, California ** ** WWW page ** http://www.emf.net/~troop24/t24.html ** Scoutmaster, Mt. Diablo Silverado Council Jamboree Troop #637 ** http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/9637/ **I just went to PTC two weeks ago and did the Spouse program while my wife was at Wood Badge. None of the hikes that the spouses do include the Tooth of Time. Given that the spouses can be quite elderly, the hikes that they go on aren't particularly challenging, although they can be fairly lengthy. The Tooth of Time IS a challenging hike.
From "Roger Tipley" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Organization Compaq Computer Corp Date Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:33:30 GMT Newsgroups rec.scouting.usa Message-ID <01bdaf2b$faa0ab10$02d3a883@curie>
The Urraca Trail was a good hike. Don't miss Jim Fish's story on the Lover's Leap hike. I was a little disappointed about not doing the Tooth of Time. My 12 year-old "Boy Scout II Program" son and my 14 year-old "Mountain Man Program" son both did the tooth as a part of their programs, although I hear that other Mountain Men Treks didn't do the tooth.
My 10 year-old daughter dearly loved her Chica Program class, which also included several hikes. All of us want to go back to PTC and CHQ soon, although my wife wants to do the Spouse Program next time, since we didn't see her all week and the Wood Badge bunch didn't get very far from the Zastrow Training Site.
We stayed at the Kit Carson Inn too. It was very basic, but comfortable enough. It had no Air Conditioning, but you can get a fan from the office and open the window. It gets cool at night. The 8 of us that we took along (our family if 5 and 3 boys from the troop that we sponsored for the Mountain Man Trek) stayed comfortably in two rooms at the Kit Carson. It's good enough for the one night that you'll be there.
SM Troop 626 Houston, TX
I Used to be a Beaver of SR-202
From: Rik Bergethon <email@example.com> Date: 1998/07/14 Message-ID: <35AB3B58.F9983F6B@rmi.net> Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usaSeveral years ago an adult died of a heart attack while climbing the "Tooth of Time". Since then, Philmont has discouraged climbing the ToT, and now you can place the tail of the bull anywhere you want on your shirt-jack. It is a rugged trail and not one for a quick, three or four hour hike. Plan on all afternoon. The top is at 7900 feet elevation. The motel is OK. It's not affiliated with any national chain, is a little old and beat up, but clean.It's on the south side of the road as you come into town. At least it doesn't have a ghost, like the St. James. The restaurant at the St. James is good. There is a good gas station, with fair prices (no gouging), in Cimmarron, too. I'd top off there before going south to the ranch (about two miles). Take I-25 to Raton, NM, then west from there. If you are coming up from Alb., don't take that little cut off from the south. It's too windy and slow, and bumpy. They were widening that road from Raton last summer. In New Mexico, when they say 55, they mean it,(57 to 58 is OK but not 60) and will stop you if you don't have your seatbelt on. The trading post takes mastercard and visa. Plan on spending lots there. There are many things that you just can't get anywhere else. Carry a canteen with you when you go on the hikes. 25% humidity is a humid day there.
From: "John F. Schwaller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 1998/07/14 Message-ID: <email@example.com> Newsgroups: rec.scouting.usaBecause the Tooth of Time trail is used heavily by the Philmont Trek contingents, it is not available to PTC participants, unless one of the Senores, Boy Scouts, etc. groups are lucky enough to do it. I was just there last month. My younger son did the Tooth of Time but I had to settle for the Urraca. There is a very special badge for the Urraca which is only available to PTC participants.
J. F. Schwaller
District Chair, Mullen Trail District
From firstname.lastname@example.org Organization Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Date Fri, 17 Jul 1998 03:46:17 GMT Newsgroups rec.scouting.usa Message-ID <email@example.com>The Kit Carson is nice place to stay. The owner, Paul, owns 5 other hotels, The Restraunt is OK People from Philmont hang out at the bar there all the time, you yave to check out COLD BEER on the way from Roton. They have good pizza and the owner Roger Smith is worth meeting. Eric a staffer from Beubien works there and plays the best Harmonica I ever heard. Also Stop in outback Gear and meet Judah. It is right acroos the street from the Kit. THe Casa which is right by the Tooth of time is great place to stay, posibly the nicest place in Northeastern NM. Ned Gold is one of the owners, He was a Philmont Ranger for 12 years. The casa starts at $75 a night. It is one of the nicest places I have stayed at.