Advice on waterproof gear (for Philmont)


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From: grg <gary-gaffney@uiowa.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont)
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:55:11 -0700

I am baffled by all the Waterproof v.  Water resistant etc.etc. gear.

My son and I are going hiking at the Boy Scout High Adventure of
Philmont NM.  12 days.  We need some kinda rain gear.  Goretex is
expensive.  PVC is too hot.

Anyone have any advice?

From: gjdagis@mhv.net (George J. Dagis) Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 23:16:10 GMT If you are going to NM in the SUMMERTIME almost ANYTHING will do. It is relatively dry and warm. I would be mainly concerned about having a DRY set(s) of clothes to change into rather than keeping the one I had on dry.
From: padlin <padlin@ix.netcom.com> Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont) Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:29:40 -0400 My son did Philmont several years ago, says it rained everyday, sometimes every few hours. They left their pack covers on all the time, and only used a rain jacket/coat. Everyone left the pants back at base camp. The rains lasted only a few minutes and as soon as it was over it was a 100 degrees again so drying only took minutes. No need for gortex, or the other expensive types. Find something real lightweight, his was one of the water resistant types and he was fine with it. Says anything heavier would have been way too hot. Many of the kids used ponchos, which were hot but worked fine too. Moral of the story is, no need for espensive rain rear, no need for rain pants. Get something light and as airy as possible. A good pack cover is a must. Remember it's raining but 100 degrees. This is second hand info... relayed from an 18yr old that was 14 when he did the trip. Bob
From: "Robert Haar" <rhaar@rust.net> Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont) Date: 24 May 1997 16:49:14 GMT padlin <padlin@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article <33862863.6FED@ix.netcom.com>... > grg wrote: > > > > I am baffled by all the Waterproof v. Water resistant etc.etc. gear. > > Manufacturers tend to play a little fast and loose with the terms. Waterproof general means material that is either plastic or rubber or a fabric base coated with same to be totally impervious to water - liquid and vapor. Water resistant is more typically a fabric with some kind of treatment that tends to keep water from penetrating for short periods, but allows air through and may wick moisture through during long exposures. Goretex(tm) is something different entirely. It uses a porous membrane either between fabric layers or laminated to a layer. The membrane openings are small enough to exclude liquid water, but large enough to allow water vapor and air to circulate. This can be an advantage when you are hiking during periods of extended rain. With a totally waterproof covering, you can end up as wet from your own perspiration as if you had no protection. Yes, it is expensive. But there are starting to be some competitive products that are as or nearly as good and that cost less. > > My son and I are going hiking at the Boy Scout High Adventure of > > Philmont NM. 12 days. We need some kinda rain gear. Goretex is > > expensive. PVC is too hot. > > > > Anyone have any advice? Have a great trip. Visit our troop web site at www.rust.net/~rhaar/troop188 and look in the High Adventure area for some notes from our trip last year. > > My son did Philmont several years ago, says it rained everyday, [...] > light and as airy as possible. A good pack cover is a must. Remember > it's raining but 100 degrees. > This is second hand info... relayed from an 18yr old that was 14 when > he did the trip. My experience and advice is rather different. We did a Philmont expedition last August. We had rain only twice, but each time it was heavy, included hail and strong winds, lasted for at least six hours, and was followed by cold temperatures. Anyone who got wet , especially being tired from a long day already, was in real danger of hypothermia. Anytime you are in the mountains, the weather is unpredictable. You can have 90 degrees followed by snow. You should be prepared for a wide range of weather conditions. This is hard to do when you are also trying to pack light, but it can be done. The trick is to take clothing that can be used in multiple ways. My recommendation is to take rain jacket and pants made from a breathable material such as Goretex. I have a set from Lowe Alpine made from something called Triple Point Ceramic. It is some kind of coated nylon that is breathable. It performs similar to Goretex (slightly less breathable I believe) but is still good enough to keep me dry in long rain storms. I have used it for about three years during numerous trips in the Michigan area as well as the Philmont expedition. Its weight is similar to a number of Goretex rainsuits, but cost half as much. Other manufacturers have similar lines. Go to a good backpacking store and ask their advice. In addition to being rain gear, I used the jacket for cold evenings, combined with a light weight fleece pull-over and my single long sleeved shirt. The rain pants we the only long pants I took along and served as wind and cold weather pants as well. In addition, I had a light weight set of long underwear that I took for insurance. Several of our scouts did use ponchos. They served reasonably well during the rain as long as you didn't have to walk through wet brush. Then gaiters are a good addition. But the kids with ponchos also had to take jackets and long pants for the colder times. YIS (yours in Scouting), Bob -- Robert Haar email: rhaar@rust.net Assistant Scoutmaster, BSA Troop 188, Rochester Hills, MI
From: Ken Songer <kenNQC@aol.com> Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont) Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 19:44:17 -0400 The time of year makes a huge difference at Philmont, if my memory serves me, the first part of summer(July) is sorta like monsoon season, August(when we were there) started out raining every day late morning/early afternoon for about an hour or two. We did run into hail but that was pretty high up into the mountains. My solution for rain gear was Goretex(but any breathable water resistant/proof fabric will do) pants and hooded jacket. The rain pants doubled as evening cool wear and the jacket was an additional cool wear as well. Sometimes in the lowlands, we just hiked through the rain(later in the month when it was less severe) and air-dried very quickly. Pack covers are a must. If you can possibly do it, bring polyester t-shirts and shorts, they will dry incredibly quickly and stay clean. We brought a cutom screened troop cotton t-shirt that we wore the first day. After it rained and we all got soaked, out came the poly t's. FOur days later the cotton t-shirts were still not dry while the poly t's were dry within an hour of the sun coming out. We tried to be up and on the trail no later than 6am, 5:30 some days when we had a long day. This got us to our destination before the rain and the crowds. We were set up and already finished or well into our activities before the rain. Nothing like a good New Mexico thunderstorm to take a nap to! :) Enjoy, Philmont is an eperience of a lifetime, doubly so if you are fortunate enough to do it with your son. Ken Philmont '62 '94 -- Ken Songer North Quabbin Computer
From: Woody Schlom <woody@westworld.com> Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont) Date: 24 May 1997 07:31:25 GMT Probably the "best" inexpensive AND fairly well ventilated solution is the tried-and-true PONCHO. It's open at the bottom and all you have to do for ventilation is flap your arms. However, if the wind is blowing the rain sideways you're in trouble with a poncho. Woody Schlom
From: rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU (Brad Whitehurst) Newsgroups: rec.backcountry Subject: Re: Advice needed on waterproof gear (for Philmont) Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 15:47:03 GMT I guess I fall between the other responses on this N.G. My Philmont trip was also before the advent of Goretex and Patagucci, and, since I was on a very severe budget, I made do with a poncho OK. Of course, my Philmont trip was also the first time I had camped with a nylon tent...with a floor! (The old canvas A-frame tents were our standard fare at the time...no backpacking w/ those puppies!) We went in the middle of July, and had a thundershower just about every afternoon, but it was usually after we were in camp. The good news was that, with the low humidity, stuff dried out quite rapidly. At high altitude, the t-showers were accompanied by rapid drops in temperature (and hail one day). My recommendation for cheap protection, a lightweight, coated nylon parka or poncho (the all-vinyl ones tear easily) and a wool shirt (scrounge a handmedown or check the thrift shop...it'll get pretty beat) for the chilly storms. Unless you are unlucky, you shouldn't have to hike much in the rain, so don't spring for the pricey stuff. Don't spend more than $25-30 for the raincoat. Spend some of what you save on a hat & sunscreen...I burned the crap out of the backs of my legs one morning hiking up a slope w/ the sun at my back. Spend the rest of what you save on souvenirs & patches! -- Brad Whitehurst | Aerospace Research Lab rbw3q@Virginia.EDU | We like it hot...and fast.

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