Philmont - Sierra Zip stoves

As posted to rec.scouting.usa

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From: (FMG)
Newsgroups:	rec.scouting.usa
Subject:	Philmont - Sierra Zip stoves
Date:		Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:19:51 GMT
Message-ID:	<>
Organization:	Together Networks - Burlington, VT.

Has anyone used a Sierra Zip stove while on a trek at Philmont? They don't heat water quite as fast as gas stoves but you don't have to carry fuel. Is Philmont as ticky about burning the small twigs that a Zip uses as they are (rightly) about regular camp fires? Also we would rather not have to deal with the airlines about transporting empty fuel bottles if possible.



From:		<>
Newsgroups:	rec.scouting.usa
Subject:	Re: Philmont - Sierra Zip stoves
Date:		Thu, 23 Apr 1998 22:20:20 -0500
Organization:	Indiana University - Purdue Univeristy At Indianapols,IN
Message-ID:	<>

I don't think that Philmont would want a crew to use wood found on the trail...for one thing, aside from the ecological aspect, in some areas, it will be difficult to find wood at Philmont, many areas are wooded, but there are a few that are "desert-esque" and obviously have no wood...the eco-look would point towards "no." Just as in state & national parks, the wood becomes part of the natural humus...stick with liquid fuel, it works better, and i've never heard of problems on planes with scouts...

Andrew Saywell WWW XXX
ASM, T-120
Del-Mi District Cub Activities Comm. Chairman
Quanasita Chapter Chief
Wulakamike Lodge #21 Activities Comm. Chairman

From: (Meirose)
Newsgroups:	rec.scouting.usa
Subject:	Re: Philmont - Sierra Zip stoves
Message-ID:	<>
Date:		24 Apr 1998 06:57:48 GMT
Organization:	AOL

As a former ranger at Philmont, 94 and 95, and then in the Cons department in 96, I will give you a quasi official statement that you will understand better if you know someone who has gone to Philmont beforethat can help to explain it to you. First of all there is always a fire hazard. Thankfully El Nino has been bringing moisture so hopefully the fire level stays low for the summer. In 1995, the Zip stove would not have been allowed as a form of cooking by New Mexico Law on fire hazard restrictions. That summer was very tense, and we saw all time worst fire hazard conditions.

Secondly, and perhaps most relevantly, is the disposal of the remains after you burn something at Philmont. The theory is low impact, leave no trace. The method for disposal of ash and charred debris at phimont is to crush everything that was burned by hand into it's smallest possible form. By hand ensures that there are no hidden hot coals. Crushing it to the smallest form allows quicker decomposition and better scattering. After crushing the ash and other leftover stuff, you walk out into the woods, 100ft from any trial or water source or campsite, and begin to distribute the remains. You must scatter it over a wide area. Think what it would look like if all the 26,500 people were to burn stuff and either leave the remains sit there, or just lazily walk a few feet out into the trees and dump it in a pile. There would be black piles of charred remains everywhere. This is very time consuming and extremely messy. your only other option is to pack out your charred remains, which has obvious drawbacks. Also there is reliability to factor in. If it rains for 25 straight days at Philmont (I've seen it happen, don't doubt it) you will be hard pressed to find any fuel for your stoves. Cold dehydrated cheese enchaladas really suck. I mean REALLY suck.

The solution to the fuel bottle problem is simple. Buy them when you get to philmont. The sell red plastic bottles made by Nalgene to carry fuel. Buy the fuel at Philmont. Whatever you have left at the end of your trek, sell to another trek, or donate it back to Philmont (Staff on their days off use donated fuel--it cannot be resold by Philmont) As far as transportation of stoves, that too can be worked out, 20,000+ other people seem to be finding a way each year. If you need help, call Philmont and they can give you some ideas.

Chris Meirose
Philmont Trekkie in 88, 90, 92
Phimont Ranger 94 and 95
Trail Crew Foreman 96

District Executive to the Central third of South Dakota
Buffalo and Rosebud Districts of the Sioux Council

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